The Future of Finance: Mario Payne's Blend of Tech, Philanthropy, and Stewardship

 00:00
Charlie Van Derven
Thank you for tuning into another episode of RIA Collective. My name is Charlie Van Durban. I'm your host for the day, and I guess every day I've been looking forward to this interview for a little while. I'm joined by my new friend Mario Payne. Today. Mario's firm is tomes financial in Jacksonville, Florida. Mario's got a great story. He he actually comes out of Edward Jones, went independent with Ray J. He did a great job retaining assets. We'll chat a little bit about that. And then Toms Financial started right before the pandemic. We'll get his take on that. But also, Mario's leveraging automation, which I absolutely love. So we're going to chat about that. And he's got his own ETF. Dude, how cool is that? RA making their own ETFs. 

 00:45
Mario Payne
That's awesome. 

 00:45
Charlie Van Derven
So we're going to get his take on that. Mario Payne, thank you so much for taking some time out of your day to drop some wisdom on myself and our listeners at RA Collective. 

 00:54
Mario Payne
Charlie, how are we doing today? 

 00:56
Charlie Van Derven
So good, man. Well, you and I were chatting like, I'm in Wisconsin. You can kind of if you're watching on YouTube, the background is different than what it usually is. I'm in my dad's house getting it ready for sale. We're talking about the wisdom that comes with watching our parents age a little bit. 

 01:09
Mario Payne
Yeah, it's a process, and being a certified financial planner, it's rewarding. Even though it's not fun to see clients get older and not be able to make the decisions that they used to make 510, 15 years ago, it's definitely rewarding to kind of help through the process. So, you know, from a beneficiary standpoint, they're taken care of. If we're doing a great job estate planning, we plan things accordingly so their wants and wishes are made. So even though it's bad seeing your clients or family members slip, if you do your job as a certified financial planner or financial advisor in our industry, preferably you've done some things to help the clients and kind of help the clients wishes going forward takes so much. 

 01:51
Charlie Van Derven
Stress off the family. It really does. One of the people that work for us on social advisors, her dad passed away not too long ago. His estate was a mess. When I say not too long ago, I'm talking eight, nine months ago. And it's still it's a daily headache for her still. He just he just didn't do the right things to happen. And she called me right away. She's like, you've got to have a will. If you don't have a will, you're kicking your kids in the shin. Right when she said it, I didn't mario, I didn't have a will. So my wife and I have since set one up. 

 02:24
Mario Payne
Okay. 

 02:27
Charlie Van Derven
Yeah, it's weird, man. My dad's getting older. He's struggling with cancer a little bit, but he's doing okay. But it's changed my relationship with my kids. I don't know, man. Life evolves. I think life gets easier. I'm watching what's going to be me in 25 years are thereabouts. Right. And I'm like, the time is limited, man. So it changes my perspective and approach on everything. I love it, actually. It's hard, but I love it. I love where I'm going with it. 

 02:58
Mario Payne
Yeah. And to that point, I know we're talking mostly individuals in the industry, but if it's any individuals that have questions, definitely you want to talk to your financial advisor, get a Tod transfer on deaf, go to the bank, get a pod. So if something slips through the cracks, you do have some beneficiaries without having to go through the probate process of a wheel. So we always recommend and for our practice at homes, it's standard operating procedure. When we open up an account, it doesn't matter if it's an IRA, of course we have beneficiaries. But for non retirement accounts that don't, quote unquote, need beneficiaries, we establish a tod. That's standard operating procedure at our practice. 

 03:36
Charlie Van Derven
Awesome. You guys are doing great things. Mario, listen, let's dive into your story a little bit. Of course. Really the goal of what we're trying to do here is help captive advisors who don't feel like they're in the right environment have the confidence and the knowledge to make that move. You've got some really unique things, but I want to start with your time at Jones was six or seven years there, early 2000s. Here's what I want to talk about this. I know it was stressful leaving. I could tell you some horror stories about advisors leaving Jones and being caught in mediation for three or four years before they can even prop up their next practice. Right. Now, you told me you retained 85% of assets. 

 04:17
Mario Payne
Yeah. 

 04:18
Charlie Van Derven
You didn't have the headaches that a lot of advisors at depart Jones had. So tell me about that experience. 

 04:24
Mario Payne
Yeah, very interesting. So I started out with Jones in 2007, left in 2013. So as I was kind of obtaining clients, the global recession or the great recession was kind of ending. Right. Starting late 2007, you don't got any clients? I really didn't bring in clients till eight, nine. So as we put them investments that were already down as the market recovers in 910, 1112, I look like a genius. It makes my money back. Right. As I went through the process back then at jones, I was 90% referral. Now my practice is literally 95% referral. I don't really do any marketing at all. It's just all referral based. So from a client standpoint, they came to Edward Jones not because of Edward Jones, but because of Mario Joseph Payne. A couple of things I did from a competitive advantage standpoint, though. Number one, I bought an office that was literally a mile and a half from my other office. 

 05:22
Mario Payne
So literally, most individuals have to drive past my new office to go to the Edward Jones office. Number two. My boa I brought with me. So as I left my boa and she's still with me today, she's about to retire, but 15 years later, she's still rocking and rolling with me. So from a competitive advantage standpoint, I'm right down the street. You was referred to me, not to edward jones. If you had investments before 2008, you still had that feeling, even though it's 2013 and your money is growing just because, again, investing in things that were down. Right. So for those things, it was very successful. Now, of course, I had edward jones knock on my door. I had a couple of cease and desist letters. I had the financial advisors who took over the office say some not fun things about me, like, we was working out of a warehouse, which clearly wasn't the case because our office was right down the street, so we're not in a warehouse. 

 06:18
Mario Payne
I wasn't performing correctly from an investment standpoint, which was not true, because they saw their statements. I was on leadership roles at edward jones. So we really couldn't say anything about being in good standing at edward jones because clients knew I was in leadership role. So I had an 85% retention rate. Now, that's on individuals that I wanted to bring. 

 06:39
Charlie Van Derven
Yeah, correct. Good point. Good point. 

 06:41
Mario Payne
Yeah. Now, it was definitely some clients that, for whatever reason, just was not good fits, and I didn't even ask them, and some of them reached out, and I just told them, like, it's better with your relationship at edward jones to stay there, and it is what it is there. But you had about 85% retention within the first six months I brought over, thinking about for every $100 I wanted to bring over, I brought over about $70 to $75. And then at the end of year one, that 85% kind of ran true. It was a stressful transition because I definitely want 65 hours days for a few months, but definitely self fulfilling after, like, month three, month four, as those the money is coming in. Now, when you're saying, okay, I can do this from a pay standpoint, I got paid more. I was an RA. 

 07:36
Mario Payne
So I went as an independent with raymond james. So I went from me getting $40 for every 100 I make to $70. But still, that's still a 75% raise. So as that started, I said, okay, I must be doing something good with my life. 

 07:55
Charlie Van Derven
That's a great job. And you make an important point there, right. 85% of the money you wanted to keep or the clients you wanted to keep is probably a better way to say that. So what I know about jones is especially a sign on every main street in the USA, right? Some people might walk through that front door with $10,000 in their hand, and that's the most money they've ever seen. So to them, that's the world. To you, that might be a c minus client as far asset level is concerned. Right. And so it's almost an opportunity to call that book a little bit. Jones would like you to maintain 400 households. That's insane, right? I mean, I really don't think there's an advisor on the planet that can do that effectively. So what that means is the bottom of that book doesn't get the service it deserves. 

 08:42
Mario Payne
Correct. 

 08:42
Charlie Van Derven
Right. So that's a really important point. 85% of the assets and the clients that you want to keep, because if you got 400 households, mario Gosh, there's probably 50% of that book you don't want. 

 08:55
Mario Payne
Yeah, of course. 

 08:57
Charlie Van Derven
That's important point. Now, Raymond James, of course, being in Florida based out of St. Pete's, I've been in that big building a couple of times. That's got to be helpful, too, right? Because that's a brand that's recognizable, being local to where you are. 

 09:11
Mario Payne
Oh, yeah. That was another competitive advantage as well. So from 2013 to 2019, I had my independent office at Raymond James, got my Series 24. So that was good. From a pay standpoint, I wasn't working for anybody that was working for myself, even though, again, it was a complete RIA. But that was great. And yes, the transition from Jones to Raymond James because of Raymond James being down the street in Tampa Bay helped. Now, if I had my crystal ball, right, we always say hindsight is 2020. I definitely would have went directly from Edward Jones directly RIA. Now, of course, at that time, I didn't have 100 million in assets like we have over now, of course. So I wasn't going to be SEC registered. I was going to be State of Florida registered. But still, just from a standpoint of getting more pay, because now as an RIA, we get 100% payout, really? 

 10:03
Mario Payne
Nothing has really changed from independent advisor with Raymond James to RA. I had my own office, have my own staff. I've grown since then. Only things changed is that from a compliance standpoint, raymond James did it in house, and now I have a compliance consultant that does everything, but they do everything. So if I had my crystal ball, I would have went straight RIA. So if anybody that's thinking about should they go independent or should they go RIA? Would strongly recommend just make that leap of faith. Go RIA. Your pockets will be happy because you did it. And there's really no difference between an independent advisor, in my opinion, compared to full RIA. 

 10:41
Charlie Van Derven
I'll tell you one of the things that I've experienced, Mario, and first off, you reiterate what I've heard from a lot of people I know of a group that left Jones. They were stuck in mediation for a while, ended up going to an LPL, an OSJ at LPL, and they took a big payout, right? They did that. Took a big payout from LPL to make that move. Ended up paying like, 80% of the payout back because they were like, listen, this isn't necessarily what were looking for. Compliance is an interesting conversation with firms like Wells Fargo Advisors versus Finite or Raymond James. What is it? Raymond James. Associates versus Raymond James, independent. Right. So your compliance still runs through the same compliance group that is governing the captive environment at Raymond James. So actually you go independent, but you're still subject to the risk mitigation of a captive advisor. 

 11:42
Charlie Van Derven
I agree with you. Right. If you're going to make that leap, it feels nice and safe to go independent broker dealer, but you're not the first and you won't be the last person to say the exact same thing. Right. Just make the leap. Right. Go for it. You still got some of the biases in the firm. If you're with an independent broker dealer that has a captive side, you still got some of those bias of the firm and the products that they prop up. So anyway, I'm on board with that. Now, Mario, 2019, you start Tomes Financial before we get into the pandemic conversation about that, how that impacted you? What's the name? T-O-A-M-S. Is that an acronym for something? 

 12:21
Mario Payne
Yeah, great question. So tomes. It means tithe. So the t is tithe. The O is offering, the A is Alms, which means your gifts to the Lord. And I think my gift is helping people from a financial standpoint means stewardship. So Tithe offering arms means stewardship. So if I'm being a good steward of your money, then you should biblically type more, offer more, give whatever gifts you have to the Lord. And I'm being a good steward, so definitely wanted to because I'm a huge believer. The Lord put me here for a reason. So I wanted to put a biblical spin on my name, not throw it in your face, but still let people know kind of where I stand. And I really think what I've been blessed to do is definitely helping people. And if I'm able to help people, then you're able to kind of give whatever gifts you have to whatever you believe in. 

 13:09
Charlie Van Derven
Love it, man. Love it. I didn't even ask you that when we met a couple of weeks ago. I've been curious. I love it, man. And it is all about you helping people so they can help more people. That's really cool. 

 13:21
Mario Payne
Yeah. 

 13:21
Charlie Van Derven
Now, you start your firm right before the pandemic hits. 

 13:26
Mario Payne
I know. Yeah. 

 13:31
Charlie Van Derven
You start as an advisor coming out right at one of the biggest crashes in our market history right now. You start your RA right at the beginning of a pandemic. Mario, how did that affect things? How did that impact you getting started? 

 13:44
Mario Payne
Yeah, perfect timing. My crystal ball got me again, I guess. Right? It was interesting because, again, since I was independent with Raymond James, nothing changed. I may have had five or six clients that stayed with Raymond James. It was my office. I didn't move anywhere. I'm actually added a person, so I didn't have any staff changes. It was really just repapering. And one good thing about Raymond James is that they help with the process. It was completely not like Edward Jones web. And James said, hey, you know, if you ever come back, we want you with open arms. Easy process. Easy process. Actually, as I told them, it took like three or four months to kind of go through the process of compliance going to RIA. And they was cool with it. Still build clients, still serve clients. So they were great. So I would never say anything negative about Raymond James at all. 

 14:38
Charlie Van Derven
Mario, honestly, what you just said about Raymond James has a huge impact. Not that I had a negative opinion of him whatsoever. Right. I'm not neutral, maybe, at best. Right. But that's really cool that they've actually worked with you to take care of you. And obviously it's sacrificing some of their assets on the book and some of their revenue. That's a really cool thing that they were pure and cooperative in that. That's awesome, man. 

 15:04
Mario Payne
Yeah. And also to that point, when I was at Raymond James, I talked to a fair amount of Edward Jones financial advisors to kind of helped them through the process of leaving Edward Jones or Raymond James. So definitely I definitely helped them with kind of closing the deal on six or seven just going to come top of my head. Edward Jones, logan social Advisors think that helped as well, me showing how I believed in the firm compared to Edward Jones. But yeah. So as I was going through the process, at the same time, I co own a tech company called Let Bob. And at that time, were doing automation, and were trying to find a way to basically kind of automate our strategy, but then have the trades placed automatically so we have a strategy put in place. Basically, if the market is going up, we're able to kind of time the market. 

 15:52
Mario Payne
Theoretically, the market is going down, we're able to time to get out and kind of have a macro overlay to make sure that the market is going down. But if stock is uptrending, you're out that stock just so you can sell high perspective. So with that being said, I talked to Fidelity, talked to Charles Swab, talked to TD Ameritrade, and from an automation and tech standpoint, TD Ameritrade was just far and above better fit. Our integration with our system was very seamless. We actually talked to the tech team, actually talked to the CIO. So definitely had high level conversations. They kind of understood we wanted to do from an algorithmic standpoint, how we can link it to this system called think pipes at the home office, which we was able to do and then we was able to run our models automated, so we had to automate our models. 

 16:38
Mario Payne
And then that kind of got us to the point in 2020 doing COVID. It's like, hey, we have these automated things that's going on in TD Ameritrade. What about our own ETF again? And shouts out to our owner, he's licensed as well, Anthony Buchanan. He basically kind of restarted the process. That was a tedious process. We talked to literally nine different ETF fund companies. Nine of them went through the process for every reason, something fell through the cracks. Time number seven and then time number nine, advisor Shares basically kind of went through the process with us. February 2022, we actually launched our fund on the ETF. The symbol is let. B-L-E-T-B as in boy, glass half empty, were down last year. Glass half full, we was down by 7%. When the stock market well, our index, the Russell, was down by 25%. So just great, because we was able to show what were doing internally with clients externally. 

 17:41
Mario Payne
And through that, we then said, okay, we now have the process. With advisor shares. We have the technology because everything is automated. So you think about Ras, who spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on strategies, on traders to run that strategy, where it's all automated. So with that, were able to then create an ETF creation platform. So you can definitely go to our website, Bragging, right now. 

 18:07
Charlie Van Derven
So excuse me, Mario, this is awesome. 

 18:10
Mario Payne
Yeah, but now you can definitely go to our website, Letbob.com. A lot of information there. But for any financial Advisor, we can actually automate their practice. They can create their own ETF. So literally, you think about having your own ETF, the actual trading strategy, we automate that strategy. So if you're a buy and hold type of person, you do technical analysis, you do fundamental analysis, whatever that strategy is, we're actually able to automate that. We have three patents, so can nobody take that from us. And it's just been rock and rolling ever since, like I said, under our ETF platform, because the Let Bob was actually released through Advisor Shares. But this is our first ETF that we're creating, and we're still going back and forth with the symbol. The symbol is either going to be TSU or Tnsu. Angels to my university. I graduated from Tennessee State University. 

 19:04
Mario Payne
I'm on their foundation board. So the cool thing about that is, again, from a giving back standpoint, since everything is automated, the expenses is really no expenses. And as we all know, all ETS that are actively managed has expenses. So since our expenses are so low, the fees that we charge internally are M and E fees, of course, net expenses. So basically profits, half the profits we actually are going to give to my university, Tennessee State, on a quarterly basis, right? So now we're actually able to create an endowment. So our thought process is, as time goes on, we're going to approach other universities, either HBCUs or larger universities and say, hey, if a company can seed or you as a financial advisor with some of the money you invest, see this ETF? Now you can actually not only help your clients from an investment standpoint, help yourself from a time and resource standpoint, but then help that charity or that university from an asset standpoint. 

 20:05
Mario Payne
Because again, since everything is automated, it's just very little fees and all that profit, half the profit will give it to whoever you so choose to receive that money. So we're helping everybody. 

 20:16
Charlie Van Derven
That's very cool. You and I are going to talk a little bit offline too because you got my brain swimming on it now. So that's awesome. And of course we're recording a few months ahead because when you release that, you got a quiet period, right? So this will air three, four months from now when you tell me it's good to go. But you guys are doing some awesome things. Mario I'm so stoked that we get to talk some questions. From what you just said, number one, maybe it's a statement. More than anything, one of the things that a big captive firm is going to do for an advisor who's thinking about going independent going to scare the h*** out of them with the amount of work that it is. Right? Look at all the resources we got. Look at all the work. So anywhere that you can find that automation to create a more efficient machine, they're right. 

 21:00
Charlie Van Derven
It's a lot of work, right? I mean, no one's denying you got to put the sweat in, but anywhere you can find that automation to create a more efficient machine, which is part of what we do. Logan social advisors side of my professional life, I guess that's a really important piece of the puzzle. 

 21:17
Mario Payne
Oh, yes. You think about individuals have their own trading strategies. It's just that as you're growing, I mean, just be honest, we're talking to advisors. It's tough to kind of service every single portfolio. Right? Now, of course we could do block trading, but it's tough. But if that was automated or if that was in a fund where the strategy you created just kind of just doesn't autopilot, it just takes so much time and stress, especially when the market is going down off your shoulders and you can really now service clients, bring in more assets, make your practice more efficient. So it's been a huge game changer for me. Now, from a fiduciary standpoint, because I'm a certified financial planner, even though it's my strategy, since it's in a fund, all of our clients assets are not in that fund. Right. The rule of thumb is you want to have no more than 20%, 25. 

 22:09
Mario Payne
I'd like 20. No more than 20% in a fund. So even though we have our fund on the market per se, if a client has, theoretically speaking, let's say $100,000 to make the math easier, no more than $20,000. Is in that fund. So again, automatic strategies that we do, there are no strategies. So again, it is room for us to create more funds, a growth fund, a bond fund. So it is some room for us internally to kind of create more funds. But just in general, yes, we can help. But we always just want to say from a fiduciary standpoint, you have a responsibility and you don't want to put all your clients eggs in one basket. I'm not annuity sales. We don't want everything in one basket. We want you to be diversified. Yes, with our fund. But definitely you do want to have that fiduciary responsibility and uphold to that. 

 23:00
Charlie Van Derven
That's awesome, dude. You're such a good guy. So now I want to ask also all the work that you're doing on the TD platform, how is that impacted by the Schwab acquisition? 

 23:10
Mario Payne
Yeah, great question. So TD Ameritrade has done a great job of that. They have things in place where slowly but surely we integrate. So the full integration will be in September. But if you wanted to and we participated into it, you can actually be on a Charles Swab platform now. So we actually have opened up a few accounts on Charles Swab. Now for us, from an automation standpoint, we actually automate our account opening process. We use a company called Forms Assembly, if you're familiar with them. But you can do Forms Assembly forms, which is web based, and you can do an API through CRM Salesforce. So they put their information in APIs through Salesforce APIs through DocuSign. So literally they type information in Forms Assembly, and then a day later it's DocuSigned out. So again, from automation standpoint, I'm saying that a lot, but we're just big on tech. 

 24:10
Mario Payne
So we actually went through the process and got all the forms needed for Charles Swap. Kind of did the automation process as well. But from a Charles Swap standpoint, their systems are not the same, but not different. A good thing for TD Ameritrade individuals that think pipes, basically the trading system that individuals use, charles Swab is adopting that. So that's just kind of huge from a trading standpoint. But, yeah, we're definitely excited when you have Charles Swab, one of the biggest out there in TD Ameritrade, one of the biggest out there as well, merging, I think that'll be great. More support for clients, which is most important, I think, for advisors as well. So we're definitely excited about the whole merger. 

 24:52
Charlie Van Derven
You guys are so innovative. I love it. Really. Honestly, our greatest employees have two things. Listen, lots more than two things, but two that I've been able to see, right? Curiosity and innovation. And if you got those two things, it creates a really quality person to work with. Mario, I'm stoked that we're having this conversation. What are you doing with Tom's financial? Is it you and your former boa, which for anybody who does know that acronym with jones is Brian's, office administrator. Basically, it's a CA, right? Client associate. How big is the firm now? Where are you taking it? 

 25:33
Mario Payne
Yeah, great question. So right now we have me and two of the licensed financial advisors, crystal, actually one was from Charles Swab, and Charles Swab had some reorganization a few years ago. We was able to have her come over. So that's been awesome. So she's coming back home, per se, back to Charles Swab. So it's us, too. We have three support staff and then actually have which we could talk about as well. If you want to have actually three virtual assistants that are virtual and they kind of do all the tedious stuff that the staff doesn't really have to do, but they have to if they have to, and then other kind of stuff running my social media and kind of running kind of life. It keeps me busy, but in a good way. 

 26:18
Charlie Van Derven
Yeah, that's good. Mario, if we've got any listeners who resonate with your story and I can only imagine we do, right? I mean, you're doing things a little bit different than the average bear, if you will. You okay being a resource for them? 

 26:34
Mario Payne
Of course. Yeah. Website www.tomesfinancial.com. Email me, Mario, at tomesfinancial. So, yeah, you can definitely email me or look me up on the website. Look me up on LinkedIn. Mariopain twitter. Our instagram is Tomasfinancialjax. I kind of have a split personality where I kind of do some comedic. I'm not a comedian, but, like, just kind of comedic every single day. I talk about the market in a kind of 32nd comedic way or stock that Instagram is Painful Profits, because my last name is Pain. So painful. P-A-Y-N-E-F-U-L profits. And then also do a weekly YouTube combos with your CFP, where I saw my YouTube channel, Painful Profits as well. And that's just fictional nonfictional stories I've had with clients throughout the week and kind of how our conversations were, how to have conversations, how to talk clients off the ledge, especially last year when the market was going down. 

 27:41
Mario Payne
I did one this past week about a client just got done with their car payment. They have children that's about to go to college. So should I get that new car, or should I kind of wait till the kids get out of school when I kind of talked about pros and cons in our conversation? Hypothetically, real life stuff. 

 27:57
Charlie Van Derven
Appreciate that. Mario Payne. Man, I am really I'm honored to know you in Wisconsin now, but when I get home in Florida, I'm about 100 miles south of you. So you want to go on a surfboard, I'll put you on surfboard. Otherwise, we can grab coffee, whatever you're more comfortable. 

 28:12
Mario Payne
Yeah, coffee be a little bit better, but I can't surf. 

 28:17
Charlie Van Derven
Well, it starts with the first try, man. So you contemplate that I'm good with coffee, too. Mario Payne, tomes Financial, Jacksonville, Florida. Dude, you're awesome. I love the innovation you're bringing to the platforms. I love the ETF platform that you're building out. You and I will have some offline conversations because, literally, you're talking to my brain is going, well, what about that? What about that? What about that? So that's a whole different conversation, not necessarily for RA Collective, but, dude, I'm excited, man. You're innovating some things, and it's cool to hear because, man, there's about 700,000 advisors in this country, just about, and 99% of them are doing things approximately the same way. So kudos to you, dude. 

 29:04
Mario Payne
Thank you. I appreciate that. Really do. 

 29:06
Charlie Van Derven
So on behalf of myself, Charlie Bender, and my guest today, mario Payne, with Homes Financial, Jacksonville, Florida, doing incredible things for our industry, thank you all for spending a little bit of time listening to RAA Collective. Of course, as I say all the time at the end of these, we don't have any big sponsorship. I'm not sure we'll ever go there. This is kind of a pet project hoping to move this industry independent. So if you share it, if someone needs to hear this, someone needs to know. Mario, please share the show. And if you'd give us a review and subscribe on your favorite listening platform, that helps us reach more people. So appreciate that. Mario, thanks for being here, man. I appreciate you taking part of your day off. 

 29:43
Mario Payne
Thank you. 

 29:44
Charlie Van Derven
Yeah, you got it. And to all our listeners, thanks. We'll catch you on the next one.