Mastering the Move: Navigating the Transition to Independence with Brandon Fink

Charlie Van Derven: 0:17

Hello, and thank you for tuning into another episode of RIA Collective. I'm your host, as always, Charlie Van Derven. We got a good show in store. I got a guest that I'm excited to bring on because he's got a good story. But not only that, I've known Brandon Fink for four or five or six years or gosh, Brandon, I don't even know how, man. So Brandon recently made a move. We don't worry about the previous firm, but he recently went to Claro Advisors, based out of Boston, Massachusetts, near Brandon's home. And so we get to hear that story. We're going to talk about a mutual friend of ours, a new friend of ours, Scott Mattasar, who is I interviewed him yesterday. You know, he's a recent episode that came out, but what a wonderful resource for Brandon and for other advisors who are looking at making a similar move. So I talk a lot, Brandon. You know that. I'm sorry. I'm going to give you airtime. Brandon Fink, thank you so much for being my guest today on RIA Collective. I appreciate you taking the time.

Brandon Fink: 1:16

Man, I'm excited to be here, and I'm excited to share this story because it's a story that I very much believe in. Going independent, going into the RIA world, it's been one of the best career moves I've ever made. I advocate other financial planners in broker dealer land to make the move, if appropriate. Business has just been phenomenal since I made this switch. So anything I can do to help the advisory world make decisions that are in the best interest of their families, their clients, their businesses, I'm all for it.

Charlie Van Derven: 1:50

That's awesome. And that's why we're here, too, right? I like to say this because it's honest. The podcast doesn't make any money. We're not trying to make any money. It doesn't cost all that much to produce a podcast, but I feel like it's getting the right word out there. I don't know if we're giving good advice, Brandon. Certainly you will. Certainly Scott did. But more than that, maybe confidence, right? I mean, people who are you thought about this for a while. You and I were working together, and it was part of our conversation pretty frequently.

Brandon Fink: 2:17

Yeah. I always envisioned so I was eight years into my career, nine years in. It was probably about 30 when I made the switch. I always knew I was going to end up at An RIA. That was always my vision. I understood the benefits. It really was a question of when. And it just got to the point I realized every single family that I brought on as a client, every month, every quarter that I waited, it was just going to get more difficult, and there really was no better time to do it than now. And I'll talk about in the podcast, some measurables you can look at to give you some clarity and confidence on if it's the right time and how to make the transition be as smooth as possible. But I think step one is being committed to the idea that I'm going to do this, and I think that was step one. I was committed to be more independent. I looked at RIAs and independent broker dealers, and by the way, I did this with a phenomenal recruiter, robert Noey, with Winthrop and good friend of mine. He's been amazing. So shout out to him. He introduced me to a lot of different firms and we quickly realized I just had to go to an RIA. And Charlie, you even gave me some advice at that point and said, look, Brandon, you're going to end up at an RIA anyway, so you might as well do this move once and do it right. So I became committed to joining an RIA, and then it was really a question of finding the right RIA. And then when I made the decision to join Claro, then it really became preparation and getting ready to make that move and having that date in mind and just planning. And I'll never forget that day. When I left, I had this Ll Cool J song in the background just to sort of pump me up. Ll Cool J bad. I had that bumping in the background. I had all my energy drinks, my coffee. Everything was just ready to go. Four o'clock on Friday, and I knew it was going to be a crazy weekend, but it was an awesome weekend. It was just everything I had been preparing for literally like, eight months. It's like this was my moment and it all worked out well.

Charlie Van Derven: 4:40

Eminem song comes to mind there, too. Yeah, that's awesome.

Brandon Fink: 4:44

But something hype you up a little bit.

Charlie Van Derven: 4:47

Yeah, I love it, man. Let's talk about the prior for a second. I don't want to concentrate too much on that, but I know in our conversations, right, you were focused on a very narrow niche, which was a passion of yours, athletes, basketball specifically. You wrote a book about it, so you were really focused on a niche. And every niche is a little bit different. And certainly the way you communicate to people in different niches is going to vary. Now, one of your big struggles, Brandon, and there were others, but one of the big struggles was in your previous iteration, you couldn't get in front of your audience. Compliance just didn't even allow you to be in the places that captured the attention of the audience you were seeking.

Brandon Fink: 5:31

Yeah, it was a struggle and it was almost to the point from a client perspective. Fiduciary, always. But some of the marketing things I wanted to do, it literally got to the point it's like, if I do these things, I might get fired. And ultimately it held me back to a degree. I think the book is a perfect example, had an amazing piece that I wrote and probably took compliance three four months to give the final approval on it. The problem was that was during COVID And there was a time where every single NBA player this was before they went off and played in Orlando in the bubble. Every NBA player was sitting at home. And I could have got this book to them and they would have been more receptive because they were just sitting on their ass. And I couldn't do that effectively. The book didn't come out till people were really coming out of their COVID shells. So the reality was the things I wanted to do and these were great marketing ideas, things in the best interest of my audience and my clients. The firm would either say no or if it was a yes, it was a compromise yes and a yes that would take many months to get to. So I needed fast results when it came to compliance so that I ultimately could progress my business. And I wasn't getting that at my last firm.

Charlie Van Derven: 6:55

Some of that of course, is FINRA, right? I mean, some of that listen, these compliance departments are strapped and the more custom marketing becomes and we're pushing that as hard as we can to social advisors, but the more custom marketing becomes, the harder it is to work with a department that is notoriously understaffed anyway.

Brandon Fink: 7:18

Yeah, absolutely.

Charlie Van Derven: 7:19

It's the reason to build it once, sell it many time content companies out there are successful is because they got compliance behind them. Because compliance doesn't want to have to review it more than once.

Brandon Fink: 7:29

Absolutely.

Charlie Van Derven: 7:31

I want to talk so that being some of the reasoning, right? Is the pace of compliance and firm restrictions which are stricter than FINRA restrictions which are strapped by not having the right staff in place. What brought you to Claro? Why was that as you and Robert and you and Scott were working together, why was Claro the answer?

Brandon Fink: 7:55

One of the things that stood out about Claro I live in Boston. They have a downtown Boston office with advisors that go in every day. And I didn't want to be by myself and I wanted to have camaraderie idea sharing, collaboration with those that I work with. I wanted a group of like minded individuals that could make me better. And the other firms I was talking to, I would be the only Boston guy. I'd essentially be going into an office by myself every you know claro was not the only firm that had a lot of flexibility, great investment resources, an amazing platform, but they were the only firm that had all that and a dedicated Boston office that I could go into every single day. That was eight minutes walking from where I live.

Charlie Van Derven: 8:48

Cool. We recently went back to a hybrid model. We've been remote since COVID started. You know what you lose while you're not interacting, but you don't realize how badly the team needs that in person, that collaborative environment. So that's cool. Good reasons.

Brandon Fink: 9:10

Yeah, absolutely. I'm unapologetically an in person guy. It's just easier. Yeah.

Charlie Van Derven: 9:18

It's more fun.

Brandon Fink: 9:19

Yeah, absolutely.

Charlie Van Derven: 9:20

And this is good. And you and I have had a chance to sit down and I think we had a lobster roll, maybe. Certainly there were a few beers exchanged.

Brandon Fink: 9:27

Absolutely.

Charlie Van Derven: 9:28

So we've had that in person time in Boston. But, yeah, I like it better. It seems like you get to a Zoom meeting, right. And you get down to business with most people, if there's an in person, there's a lot more of the socializing that happens in person that allows you to draw kind of some more parallels, perhaps.

Brandon Fink: 9:51

Absolutely.

Charlie Van Derven: 9:52

I dig it. Now, one of the things you said when were chatting a couple of weeks ago, you said culture is amazing. A couple of things. You said culture is amazing. At Claro, you said age of the people you work with. Right. I mean, it's a young culture, right?

Brandon Fink: 10:06

Very young. Very young relative to the industry. I don't know the average age of our advisors, but it wouldn't surprise me if it was under 45. And what comes with that is people that want to grow, people that are not looking to retire, and just a lot of fun camaraderie a young culture, I think about those that are in the office on a daily basis because we have some advisors that work remote. We don't see them as much. I mean, 41, 32, early 40s. We got a couple of junior advisors in their mid to late twenty s. And then more of the advisors that are working from home are probably over 40. But under 50, that means something. First of all, not for nothing, right? For those listening, if you're on the end of your career, it brings phenomenal succession opportunities. But at the same token, it's just you have people that want to learn, they want to grow. High energy. Just a great culture. Yeah.

Charlie Van Derven: 11:17

You said something that I remember as well. And you feel like you can serve your clients without I'm not quoting you exactly, Brandon, but, like the freedom to be who you need to be for your yeah, absolutely.

Brandon Fink: 11:33

And the last firm I was at, I could do that and I'll walk through, but it wasn't necessarily celebrated. Right. I was not able to take part in the company benefits. And that was fine because, look, as a single guy, health care wasn't that expensive. I could do a SAP instead of the company. Four hundred and one K. I missed the match. But it was more of a coming to Jesus moment where it was like, well, if they're not even giving me benefits, they clearly don't give a shit about me. Right. So, really, it wasn't celebrated to always do what was in the best interest of your client. I will tell you, the group I was in, we did, but we definitely weren't getting any company benefits. In that sense. And there were some investment solutions that I really liked that my prior firm just would not allow. And when I got on the phone with the people that made those decisions, they couldn't give me answer why it wasn't allowed. But the two things I took from it is, one, they may not be compensated as much, which I didn't like. And the second is they felt it was too complex, not for a CFP like me. But some of the advisors that didn't take the time to get those designations know, really be the best advisor that they could. You know, Michael Kitz has coined the term, I think it was like lowest common denominator compliance. They have to build a platform that your worst advisor can work within. And quite frankly, at Claro, if you're not a good like, we're not taking you. So there's a level of trust that every advisor is given because we know what we're doing. We have our designations, we master our craft. So we get that freedom because we've earned that freedom. I didn't have all the investment freedom that my clients needed at my prior firm.

Charlie Van Derven: 13:34

I'm not going to speak to your prior firm at all, Brandon, but I'm going to speak in generalities. I hear over and over that the big firms, it's almost like the RIA, they want to make it out like the RIA is for those people who can't cut it at a large firm. A large multinational firm. Right. Where you just said something very poignant.

Brandon Fink: 13:58

Right.

Charlie Van Derven: 13:59

If you're not a kick ass advisor, again, paraphrasing not quoting Claro's, not going to take you. Right. It is the antithesis. It is like the best advisors at a large firm are coming to firms like Claro where this industry is evolving so quickly. Dude, I love to see it. It's so good.

Brandon Fink: 14:17

Yeah. No, it really is the best of the best.

Charlie Van Derven: 14:21

Yeah, I absolutely love it. So I want to talk about right. You got a great story. Again, we certainly want to give advice but also confidence to those who are listening that are thinking about this. I want to talk about some of the stuff that you did well, because I would say you confided in me, but I'm going to share it anyway. You're like, everybody came with even some that I'm like. I'm not sure that at the time you were stressed, so you were taking every maybe some clients that maybe shouldn't have come with.

Brandon Fink: 14:53

Yeah, absolutely.

Charlie Van Derven: 14:54

What did you do to get that kind of transition?

Brandon Fink: 14:57

I think it stems from amazing relationships with your clients prior to the move. So if you're thinking about moving, you have to ask yourself, do my clients really love me? And the number one thing I've always done, and it's not rocket science, is they get a lot of communication. I've always know there's a standard. You have your annual advisory meeting with your advisor. We do those three to four times a year. Now, granted, people say, Well, Brandon, how do you do that? That'd be so time consuming. It's like, look, your clients don't necessarily need an hour and a half meeting. In fact, they don't want an hour and a half meeting. But the value of every three months, a 20 minutes conversation, text on their birthday, it means a lot. So I had really good relationships. I say we because my operations manager Paul came with me. We had amazing relationships with our clients from the get go, but it doesn't hurt to make sure you're on great grounds with them prior to the move. So we made sure before the date in which we left that every single client got a review in the past month, two months, and that it was a thorough review. We were in good graces with everybody that we had a really good conversation with them. So having those relationships is very helpful because not only is it them coming, when they came, it was an emphatic. Yes. And they got the paperwork back quickly. I think you may experience some anxiety if they say yes, but it takes them a while. And you go through that period where it's like, are they going to come? Are they not going to come? Our people came pretty quickly. There were a few people that gave us some surprise objections, but I had to listen to those objections like they hadn't heard of Claro. And then I had to remind them we use Schwab and Fidelity as our custodian. So when you log in, you're going to see fidelity because that's who we used for them. So conversations like that, there's always going to be people that need more conversations than you think. But ultimately, at the end of the day, people came pretty quickly. Yeah.

Charlie Van Derven: 17:03

That's awesome, man. I love the advice of having that review 30, 60 days out, reminding them who they're doing business with. And certainly it wasn't your former firm.

Brandon Fink: 17:15

Yeah, that's awesome.

Charlie Van Derven: 17:18

It's trust, it's relationship. And it's maybe easier for you to see it as relationship, but as clients, trust mean absent of the trust, the relationship doesn't. That's that's a kudos to you and the great things that you guys have done prior. And now at Claro, this is going to be a tough one for you because you had a really good move. And I talked to Scott. I know why you had a really good move. Just because he's a solid dude. So let's plug him, man. Scott, Mattisar, at Mattisar and Jacobs was the attorney that Brandon worked with in his move. I don't know if I can even say. Are you guys are both okay with it?

Brandon Fink: 18:01

You both have yeah, I'm okay with it. Look, I advocate for it. I've introduced Scott to other people in transition. If you're leaving your firm, I believe you should hire an independent attorney that understands this. It this is not legal advice. I'll preface I know some lawyers, and I had some conversations with them, and some of them said, Well, Brandon, you want a Massachusetts lawyer? Because it's Massachusetts. A lot of the rules and regulations in our industry are federal. So Scott's not in Massachusetts. That was fine. Effectively, he read the employment contract very thoroughly, so we knew what I could do and what I can't do. And from his I don't know how many transitions he's know, maybe hundreds. He could lean on his prior experiences. We did what were allowed to do, and if weren't able to do something, we didn't do it. We didn't screw around in that regard. So he really read that employment know. We understood very thoroughly what were able and what were not able to do. And we worked within the rules, but we knew the rules because Scott read it. And I had an attorney on my side. And the other great thing about Scott, I got a little pushback when I left. We can talk about that and how to mitigate that, because I have some thoughts, but if the firm comes back at you, and they sometimes do you want Scott on your side? And that had happened with a friend of mine. And Scott's a great dude, but he's not somebody to mess around with either. He knows what's in your legal right, and if the other firm comes back, he'll have your back.

Charlie Van Derven: 19:52

Yeah, no solid guy. He mentioned so I'll repeat it because he mentioned it in a recording. 250 to 275 transitions a year. Okay, so tens of thousands, maybe. I know I've been doing it 25, 30 years, whatever. Yeah. And there's a lot of resources out there, man. Scott is certainly a good one. So here's the tough one, brandon, is there anything that you would change the way this move happened?

Brandon Fink: 20:23

We had talked about this. It really went very smooth because I was a bit prepared. I think a few things have confidence in yourself, in trust in your growth. Ultimately, I was discerning about who I brought over. You start your career, maybe you have some more transactional relationships. I didn't want to bring those. I wanted to bring my real financial planning relationships. But there were some people that obviously, we took good care of their families, but they viewed us as more of a transactional advisor. They had some money with us. And did I need to bring those people over? Not really, but I did it because I was afraid to lose the revenue. But what ended up happening is I continued to grow my practice meaningfully when I came over, so I didn't need that revenue. But it's not as if those transactional relationships take a ton of my time. I mean, I would say 98% of my clients, they're here for a real financial planning relationship. The second thing, I did a pretty good job of which is don't tell anybody. Look, if you have a spouse, you're going to want to communicate it to them because they're going to know and they're going to want to understand why you're so stressed. Obviously, I did not tell any clients. You're not able to do that. And again, we didn't screw around in that regard. I maybe told a couple of good friends it didn't get out, but just be very careful with who you tell. And we did not tell any clients. But I've heard of stories where people do tell their clients. I think you're asking for trouble. And again, if your clients really have confidence in you, they'll come with you and they'll understand why you couldn't tell them before the move. If you explain it to them, say, hey, I don't mean this to be out of the blue, but here are the rules and regulations of my industry. I'm never going to do anything to sacrifice my good standing with regulators because I have to make sure I can be a good advisor to you. And that means I am an advisor. Right. So I can't do anything to jeopardize my legal standing in this profession. So they'll understand that. But those are the things I would have been maybe more mindful of, but none of it really derailed my success.

Charlie Van Derven: 23:04

I like to, and I go back to this pretty often in these types of conversations, is the fiduciary responsibility, especially as a CFP, that comes with your role in that relationship, is always the perfect reason if change has to happen?

Brandon Fink: 23:19

Yes.

Charlie Van Derven: 23:20

When you're communicating that after the fact with clients, I couldn't tell you about it legally because I'm a fiduciary. This is the best place for you. That's why I'm here.

Brandon Fink: 23:30

Yeah. And we talked about in the long term why I felt it was better for them. And I stressed it wasn't about me. Look, the first thing I stressed is I'm just going back to those conversations. At this point, a year and a half ago, more investment flexibility was obviously a very big one, I think. Look, were at a firm that generally allowed us, like, we had independence with our investments. Yeah, there were a few investments I wanted to choose that we couldn't, and I did talk about that, but they were and are a publicly traded company, so we did not fully control our own destiny. They may have made decisions in the future based on their profitability that may be adverse to the client, and we wouldn't have had a say in the matter. We mitigate that risk significantly. Claro is a privately held company. We don't have shareholders. So the challenge is, when they're publicly traded, you can't fully control what is allowed for your clients. So I said, look, part of this is me having your back over what might happen in five or ten years. Yeah.

Charlie Van Derven: 24:50

That's awesome. Brandon, I love hearing your story, man, especially given the length of time you and I have known each other and where you were in your career when I met you. So it's so fun to watch you grow as a professional as well. Do you mind acting as a resource if we got some listeners who are like, hey, Claro, sounds interesting, or Brandon's a good guy to talk to?

Brandon Fink: 25:10

Yeah, absolutely.

Charlie Van Derven: 25:11

What's the easiest way to get a hold of you?

Brandon Fink: 25:20

My email Bfink@claroadvisors.com. You know, you could just pop me in google, my profile pops right up, you'll find my email, telephone number and always happy to help.

Charlie Van Derven: 25:29

Awesome. Brandon Fink, my friend. Thank you for being a guest. I appreciate you taking some time out of your day and sharing your story. It's a good one for sure. You've had a lot of success. Thanks for being here.

Brandon Fink: 25:40

Always. Appreciate it.

Charlie Van Derven: 25:41

You got it. Everybody that's listening, thank you for taking a little bit of time out of your day. We appreciate that. That's a precious resource. And as I like to brag about, we don't make money on this. We're not trying to make money on this. What we're trying to do is help this industry go, I think, where the most pure client relationships are, and that's in an independent side of the industry. And so thanks to guys like Brandon who share their experience, we like to bring good advice and confidence. Probably not advice, just good confidence for making that move. If you're thinking about it now because we're not paying for advertising and having sponsorship dollars, we need you to share this if we're going to get the word out. So if you know any advisors, know three, four years ago where Brandon was. If they're there today, please share RIA Collective with them. We got a lot of good episodes from breakaway attorneys, great advisors who have made the move heads of RIAs. And thanks once more to my friend Brandon Fink for being here and for you for listening.