Blueprint for Independence with Justin Stevens

 00:01
Charlie Van Derven
Thank you for tuning into another episode of RA Collective, as always, every single time. I'm your host, Charlie Van Duvin. I've got a really, like, a special guest today that I think is going to bring a ton of knowledge to our advisor listening audience that's looking for an opportunity to go independent. Listen, young man. Done it right. Like building a firm, doing a great job. So I'm joined today by Justin Stevens. Justin's firm is called O'Keefe Stevens Advisory. He and his partner, Peter. We'll get into all that. Are based in Rochester, New York. And Justin, first and foremost, welcome and thank you for spending some time with me today. 

 00:41
Justin Stevens
Thank you, Charlie. Glad to be here. 

 00:43
Charlie Van Derven
Yeah, man. I'm excited to get into your story. Justin. First, before we get into the business of it, like, our meet and greet call, which know something we do in a month in advance, I was getting ready to head out west. You were out west? Sitting on a couch in Utah, waiting to go snowboarding or skiing. And so I know that we've got some kindred spirit amongst us as well. So that's awesome. 

 01:05
Justin Stevens
Yeah. Had to get out west to ski this year. There is virtually no snow in Rochester, New York, this year, which nobody's complaining about here unless you're a skier. 

 01:15
Charlie Van Derven
Yeah. Right. My brother and dad are in Wisconsin. I hear the same about. About weather in Wisconsin. Where did see, trying to think. Oh, friends in, you know, as cold as that, they took a picture and showed a nasty day yesterday. Like, it's the first really bad day that winter. Yeah, dude. But no one wants to hear about weather, Justin. And they don't care about our snowboarding and skiing. 

 01:40
Justin Stevens
Right. 

 01:41
Charlie Van Derven
And so they're tuned in to learn what you did. Well, man. So I want to kind of get origin story. You're 36 years old. I'm impressed with what you and Peter have built in your young duration in the industry. So kind of. Let's start in the beginning. What brought you to financial services? 

 02:00
Justin Stevens
Yeah, absolutely. I was originally going to go to college for pre med, and thankfully did an internship my high school summer at Roswell Park Cancer Institute in Buffalo, New York, and got to work in a lab, got to be in a hospital every day. Realized I don't like either of those places as a place to spend my time. Kudos to all the people who do work in those places. But it was not for me, so I did a quick pivot, and in high school, I had a best friend whose father was a financial advisor. I spent a lot of time with that family. And I got to talk to him and he said, well, you have a lot of the great attributes. Maybe you should consider this. 

 02:47
Justin Stevens
So I switched into a first accounting and then into just overall finance degree and started doing internships in college and realized I really like this. I like talking to people, I like being in an office. Love figuring this stuff out, every aspect of financial planning and then just learning how to invest and learning about businesses. The whole thing was fascinating. So pursued that and when I graduated from Nazareth College at that point, it's Nazareth university now. Started looking for jobs in the Rochester market and unfortunately found myself at a really great firm, 100 year old firm, fourth generation family owned business now. And they brought me in and gave me a great opportunity to start and kind of learn the lay of the land. But some awesome mentorship opportunities. 

 03:43
Charlie Van Derven
I think that's really. Here's, you know, with a lot of the interviews we do, it's people who came through, say UBS or Morgan Stanley or Merrill lynch or, you know, even Jones and made a breakaway from. And when were getting to know each other, you were super complimentary of that firm that you landed and that's kind of abnormal for people who find themselves moving towards independence or RIA, usually. Honestly, I keep the name of most firms out of the conversation because people are not very complimentary of their first roles in the industry oftentimes. So talk about that like that nurturing environment that you were brought into. Let's learn about that. And then kind of how that prepared you for jump to independence. 

 04:29
Justin Stevens
Yeah. So that was a family run business. Still is today. And again, absolutely all the best things to say about that opportunity and what it afforded me as a young person. The best thing in comparison to what you just described was it was not this high pressure sales environment where they're breathing down your neck to meet a quota. You missed by whatever asset goal you're supposed to hit and you're out. I didn't have that at the beginning. I think I probably would have made it in that environment, but it was nice to not have that pressure and it allowed me to explore all the different ways to do this business and not have to compromise on the integrity piece of what I was doing. That was a huge benefit to learn early in the business. 

 05:18
Justin Stevens
One of the people that was my mentor at that firm is my current partner today. He had merged. His business was based in Buffalo, New York, and he had been commuting for five years between the two cities, which are about. Well, I know it's 132 miles, one way for him. He tells me that a story all the time. So, Peter was a relatively new advisor at the firm, and he took me under his wing, and we had an informal mentor mentee relationship for the first few years that I worked there, which was wonderful. But he encouraged me to talk to all the different people at the firm and get to know the different ways that you can approach this business, both from a planning standpoint, but also from an investment standpoint. 

 06:07
Charlie Van Derven
That's cool. Over the years, a lot of recruiting has happened as a result of this podcast. But also, just having worked with advisors for a long time, I've seen people leave one environment and jump into another environment, potentially a new partner, potentially joining an existing team. And the grass is not necessarily greener, but you had a chance to kind of make sure that partnership was in a good place before you guys ever really thought to do something separate. 

 06:37
Justin Stevens
Absolutely. That philosophical alignment. Look, there's so many different ways to do this. We tell people there's 100 ways to get to heaven, right? It's not that any one way is right or wrong, but where are you going to place your faith, and how are you going to align those beliefs to your daily activities? They got to be consistent. Right. And so there's lots of different ways to do this. So, for us, as a firm today, it's really important. We're really dialed in on what it is that we do, our philosophy, how we approach planning and investing, and we don't compromise on those things. And that was all because at the beginning, I got a chance to find out, this is the lay of the land. This is all the different ways you can do this. 

 07:23
Justin Stevens
Met a lot of great people in the beginning of my career and eventually gravitated to the one that I said, I can stand by this, and you got to sell at the end of the day. So that's a transfer of emotion. You got to have a strong conviction in what you're doing. 

 07:40
Charlie Van Derven
As you look back as. As you're getting to know Peter, and Peter's getting to know you, maybe even before you guys make this decision to partner. What are the attributes that he brings to the table? And how do those complement the attributes that you bring to the table? 

 07:56
Justin Stevens
So the thing that is, like, the first thing that anybody will say about Peter is authentic and integrity. He is not going to compromise. What you see is what you get, the good and the bad. And he's a very strong personality, but he's unwavering. And the thing that I noticed right away is this guy, he will always look to do right by the client, not that other people wouldn't. But when somebody makes such a concerted effort to be like, that's the first thing that is always thought about. And it was hard not to be attracted to that early in my career, because it makes sense to me. 

 08:46
Charlie Van Derven
Yeah, that's awesome. Surround yourself with good people, man. I can tell you, ten years of social advisors and then running some teams before that. Surround yourself with good people. I think that's a key piece of advice. 

 09:02
Justin Stevens
Yes. 

 09:02
Charlie Van Derven
So, Justin, let's move the. The creation of O'Keefe, Stevens. How far in advance of forming the firm did you and Peter know that something was going on? 

 09:17
Justin Stevens
Yeah. So, actually, I remember that day very well. This firm that we had been with is today. It's probably 70 people, pretty good sized firm, about 25 advisors and management. Right. So there's management component to all these stories. We are planners. We want a business plan. We want to align actions. We want to really map out and say, hey, these are our goals and objectives, and this is exactly what we're going to do. We measure these activities and see if they work, make tweaks along the way. And that framework we've always implemented as a partnership. But it wasn't met with the same enthusiasm at the previous firm. And after a management interaction, it was October of 2016. We said, we're big enough and we have passion for what we're doing. We got to go do this on our own. 

 10:16
Justin Stevens
We know what we need to do, and we know that we're not going to get what we want done here. So we started putting together a plan. So from that date in early October 2016, it was April 1 of 2017 that we started the firm. So it was six months. 

 10:34
Charlie Van Derven
Cool. I'm sorry, go ahead. 

 10:37
Justin Stevens
No, it was six months of working two jobs. 

 10:40
Charlie Van Derven
Yeah. Right. 

 10:41
Justin Stevens
One in secret. 

 10:43
Charlie Van Derven
Yeah, let's talk about that. Right. Because you're with a good firm. It's not one of the big wirehouses that a lot of people are departing. How'd you balance that? 

 10:54
Justin Stevens
Right. 

 10:55
Charlie Van Derven
Because I'm sure you want to do good by these people. You want to do good for you. And that. What was that balancing act like for you? And then how did you and Peter make them aware? 

 11:05
Justin Stevens
So the quick story there, we both had that conversation, both agreed this makes sense for us. And we both said, when did you go home and talk to our wives? And then we came back the next day. We have very supportive spouses. My wife had started a business a couple of years before, so I knew what was involved with that? She was a resounding yes. And looking back on that was interesting because she was pregnant at the time that I came home and said with our second child, and said, hey, I want to quit my job and start a new business. But she was all for it. So the next step was we had at that time two members of our team, Marissa and Carly, who are still with us today. We took them out for coffee. 

 11:54
Justin Stevens
We said, this is kind of highly confidential at this point, but we're not going to do anything until we bring you in the fold here. We talked to them and said, we need you to know this. We can't do this without you, and we don't want to do it in secret. And they said, we're in. And if they hadn't said, we're in, probably would have been really tough for us to execute because it required all four of us. So we brought them in first and project management mapped out a timeline of all the things that we needed to get done. Bank relationships, attorney relationships, CPA relationships, put it all in order, started making those phone calls and just worked the project. So I compartmentalized that, Charlie. It was do my job during the day, close my door to my office, and from 05:30 p.m. 

 12:49
Justin Stevens
To about 08:30 p.m. Monday through Friday, that's what I'm doing. At that time, it was a whole other job. 

 12:59
Charlie Van Derven
So April comes, you guys make the departure. Justin, we don't have to throw figures out there or anything else, but you and Peter, I mean, you've been really successful. I brought up your age a little while ago. I did that on purpose because, listen, dude, seriously, at 36 years old, you guys are producing revenue that some people never get to. 

 13:24
Justin Stevens
Yeah, well, thank you for that. It's been an awesome journey. Peter, by the way, is 67 today. So we have an age gap. I stood on his shoulders for a long time. At the beginning of my career, that was a huge help. And what I lacked in knowledge and experience, I say I picked up with energy and enthusiasm. And that was the synergy that we brought to our partnership today. So when we broke off, we had about 135,000,000 under management, and we moved in three months. So it was well orchestrated. We moved 95% of that in the first three months. And I think at the end of the day, we moved like 97% in total. 

 14:12
Charlie Van Derven
Good for you guys. 

 14:14
Justin Stevens
And we just kept growing it. We built the foundation. The cool thing about starting from scratch is you got a blank canvas and you're holding the paintbrush, you get to design the foundation of what it's going to be. So we built that foundation to grow, and today we're at 350,000,000. Consistently adding new relationships, bringing on new advisors. So it's going well. 

 14:42
Charlie Van Derven
That's awesome, dude. That's great. Justin, as you look back on this journey, if there's one thing, or maybe it's a couple of things that you think, you know what I did, that it's a good thing we did that way. Is there anything that you can really speak to that you and Peter did? Well, for our listeners who are thinking about making a similar move. 

 15:08
Justin Stevens
The thing we did well was mapping out that timeline of these are all of the part. I mean, we just did a brain dump onto a page chart. It's like, hey, we're going to need a logo. We're going to need a name. We're going to need to pick corporate colors. We need to design a website. You go through that list, and there was like four, seven things that we had on that list. And then we started prioritizing, like, what do we have to do first and every week? I knew this is what I got to work on, and it was super. Well, I have that document today. I still give it to people and I say, look, if you're considering this is all the stuff we had to do, then I'm sure there's more now. 

 15:47
Justin Stevens
But if you want to look at it and get a sense of what you're up for, this is a real project and you can't take shortcuts. Unfortunately, it takes a lot of time. 

 15:58
Charlie Van Derven
And effort, and there's a huge learning curve. Right. I mean, you're coming out of a place where I would imagine you're more production than anything else and then moving into a role where you've got to streamline because you've got to handle so many other aspects of the business. 

 16:16
Justin Stevens
Yeah, it was a real choice. I mean, the choice was, hey, we can stick around here. And we probably gave up some growth on AUM for a little while in terms of, we need to make sure our current clients are being well taken care of from a service side, but we can't go out and prospect and grow at the same rate because we got to get this business set up and make sure that things are rock solid here before we start stacking layers on top of a potentially weak foundation. So we really focused on making sure that all of those systems and procedures were working well before went back into growth mode. 

 16:56
Charlie Van Derven
Cool. Tell me a little bit about the team today. It started as four. Where are you guys at now? 

 17:01
Justin Stevens
We will be adding our seven. So Grace will be joining us April 1. She's been an intern with us for the last six months, since we started. So Marissa is still with us. She runs operations for our firm. Carly runs the compliance and is kind of my right hand in terms of doing all of the. Basically keeping me on track, meetings, agendas, notes, all that stuff. Carly and I work well together. We added to operations as we got a little bigger. So we have Kristen, who is actually a fully remote employee. She lives indiana. That was a wonderful experience, actually. And we figured out that we have no geographic constraints. Today I'm sitting here in my office. I'm the only person on my team here right now. Peter was here earlier, Marissa was here earlier. 

 18:01
Justin Stevens
But for the most part, our jobs can take place anywhere. So that's been a big change. And then we added Dominic D'Angelo, who's DFA, our portfolio team. He's now our director of research. So Peter and I had always been running the portfolio. We have a framework. We brought in a guy who for years, we had been in contact with, and Dominic stepped in. He's been with us for four years now. He's kind of helping to backfill that role that Peter's got 46 years of experience in picking stocks, and he's not going anywhere right away. But we got to make sure that there's not even succession, but, like, a continuity plan in place so that this stuff will keep happening long beyond our tenure here. 

 18:51
Charlie Van Derven
Yeah. That's awesome. All right, I want to ask the opposite question. Justin, you and Peter did a lot of things really well. Is there anything that you look at and you go, geez, we could have done that a little differently. 

 19:04
Justin Stevens
I should have given up. The managing the people part way was it was a learn by trial and error. Marissa, who now runs operations and does all the human resource components of our firm, both has a passion for it, but is also just wonderful at it. She's super well organized. I think I might have told you on our intro call. She's like our team mom. The mom runs everything. She knows where everybody's got to be, what they're doing. She has her hands on every aspect of the people side of this business. I recognize the importance of it, but I'm not that good at know. I got my own stuff that I'm focused on, and when I'm laser focused, I'm kind of abrupt and not always nurturing. And Marissa is so good at balancing. 

 19:59
Justin Stevens
Hey, we're going to get this done, but I'm also going to make sure that you feel good and well supported throughout this. 

 20:05
Charlie Van Derven
Awesome. I'll tell you what I think one of the hardest things for people to do in people who are leaders is delegation. Right. Because if you're at all like me, I'm pretty good at pretty much all aspects of our business. There's certainly things I'm better at. There's certainly things I enjoy more. I'll tell you the hardest part, Justin was delegating the stuff that, a, I didn't want to do, b, there was a better person on the team at fulfilling that task. That was tough for me, man. 

 20:38
Justin Stevens
Yeah. And it's not because my team wasn't saying, hey, I can do this, they were saying it. I have that probably similar to you that I want to know how to do it. I kind of control it element. But I think the thing I recognize today, it's still a hard thing for me to overcome, is you got to let go of some of the control items and trust that if you have the right people and the right diversity of skill sets, you're going to get so much more done if you get the right person in the right seat. So we look to do that as fast as we can. Now. It's still a challenge. I'm not perfect at that. 

 21:15
Charlie Van Derven
Yeah. I would layer on that. People, skill set, processes and communication. 

 21:22
Justin Stevens
Yeah. 

 21:23
Charlie Van Derven
If you got processes and communication in place so nothing's sliding through the cracks. So everybody knows what the next step in the process is. I think it becomes so much easier, and, I mean, it's hard to scale without those. 

 21:34
Justin Stevens
Absolutely. 

 21:35
Charlie Van Derven
Yeah. Justin, tell me a little bit about the vision for O'Keefe Stevens. Are you guys going to continue to grow? Obviously, aum, but the team as. 

 21:49
Justin Stevens
We. I don't know how familiar you are with traction and entrepreneurial operating system. 

 21:54
Charlie Van Derven
Gina Wick. Gotcha. 

 21:57
Justin Stevens
That's our stuff. So for three years, we've been using eos to run our quarterly meetings and to put together a plan each year. Our objective is growth. And we're 350,000,000 today. We're going to grow to a billion. And we're going to do that organically. 

 22:17
Charlie Van Derven
Right. 

 22:17
Justin Stevens
We're not going to go out and start acquiring firms at this point. I told you earlier, this goes back to it, that philosophical alignment is so important. So we will recruit, and maybe those are people who have existing books of business, but to that end, we figured out how to go out and attract the right client who fits what we do well. We have a well documented sales process. We know how to bring them in and onboard them consistently. And then the investment framework is consistent across the board, so we don't have all these disparate parts, different ways of managing assets trying to happen under one roof. That was one big problem. And the reason why the firm I used to work with didn't have that cohesive plan is they had 25 people with probably 35 different ways of running their business. 

 23:06
Justin Stevens
Yeah, we want that to be tight, and that's what drives enterprise value in the long run, which we're interested in. But it also makes life a lot more manageable and predictable. So we're doing that, and that's the vision for the company right now. 

 23:23
Charlie Van Derven
That's awesome, man. Hey, if we've got a listener who your story resonates with, they've got some questions. Maybe they're looking for a place as their next step. Are you okay being a resource if they reach out to you? 

 23:35
Justin Stevens
Yeah, I got a ton of resources to share and ideas. I enjoy talking to people and will always support the conversation of how to get better in this business. And I'd be the first to tell somebody if I thought they were better staying where they are, if they have a good thing going, but also have helped other people who have branched out navigate what that looks like and make those right connections. So happy to be a resource, Charlie, to any listeners, and feel free to put those people in touch with me. 

 24:07
Charlie Van Derven
Awesome. I know. So Justin Stevens is very reachable on LinkedIn. What's the best way for someone to find you? If not LinkedIn? 

 24:16
Justin Stevens
You can go to our website and there's a link to my calendar. You can always book a time on my calendar. Discovery call is probably the best way to set up 45 minutes, chat on the phone or do a Zoom meeting like this. If you happen to be in Rochester, we're in downtown Rochester. You can look us up. And I'm here almost every day because my house is filled with dogs and kids, so this is my safe place. 

 24:42
Charlie Van Derven
I had a couple of little barks in the background. I don't know if you heard that. The microphone, pretty good at buffering that sort of thing. So if we catch it, we'll probably edit it out for the live. 

 24:51
Justin Stevens
It's all good. Yeah, it would be the whole garage. I got three dogs. And every time the Amazon truck drives down the road, right, the chorus starts, I hear you. 

 25:03
Charlie Van Derven
My kids are a little older than yours, 14 and 16, but two dogs, two cats, two ferrets, a lizard. Holy crap. It's a zoo at the Van Durban household. 

 25:14
Justin Stevens
I didn't even know about this. So we have nine chickens, nine guinea, three dogs, a cat, a bearded dragon. The guinea pigs just had babies again, so we have six guinea pigs, turtle. I'm like, I call my wife Dr. Doolittle. 

 25:33
Charlie Van Derven
My goodness, man, I hope the business she started is like a pet sanctuary or a veterinary funny. 

 25:41
Justin Stevens
Her business was on the move. Pet care became the largest dog walking and pet sitting business in Rochester. She's since exit. We sold that company two years ago. Now, because a thousand households that you're responsible for their pets and phone never stops ringing, man. 

 25:59
Charlie Van Derven
Yeah. 

 25:59
Justin Stevens
Wow. That's crazy. 

 26:00
Charlie Van Derven
Well, listen, entrepreneurship runs in the family. That's awesome. 

 26:05
Justin Stevens
Yeah, we got to have a couple. 

 26:06
Charlie Van Derven
Of screws loose, I'm sure. Justin, what's the website? For those who want to look you guys up? 

 26:14
Justin Stevens
It's o'Keefestevens. Com. Okeefestevens.com. 

 26:23
Charlie Van Derven
Justin Stevens, man, you and Peter seem like you're doing it right. I love the focus on the processes. I love the focus on streamlining operations. You're right. It adds institutional value, enterprise value, I should say, and frankly, makes it a more comfortable business to run each day. 

 26:44
Justin Stevens
Yeah, absolutely. Well, it was to be with you today, Charlie. Thanks for having me on the show. 

 26:50
Charlie Van Derven
Justin, you've been a great guest. Thank you for taking time out. And listen, for those of you who spent a couple minutes with me and Justin today, I hope Justin's story resonates with you. If you're looking know, talk about maybe it's a good place for you or just to pick Justin's brain on his transition and how it might benefit you in some way. Look him up on LinkedIn or O'Keefestvens. Com. Justin, you're awesome, dude. I'm excited. Maybe one day we can hit a resort together. 

 27:17
Justin Stevens
Love that. 

 27:18
Charlie Van Derven
That would be good, man. We'll have to look at next always. I always take a couple of trips, so for those of you out there. Yeah, we'll see if we can hook it up. 

 27:27
Justin Stevens
All right. 

 27:28
Charlie Van Derven
Thanks, Charlie. For those of you listening in today, thank you for spending time with us. Now, as I've said many times before, we do not take sponsorship. Maybe we could turn this into something, but at the same time, the moment you take sponsorship is the moment you've got somebody you got to pay attention to, and we don't want to do that. Right. So we grow. If you tell people about this, we grow if you like it, we grow. If you subscribe it, subscribe to it. And by all means, if you know somebody I should interview, send them my way, if you would. Justin. Once again, thank you. And for everybody listening, thanks for tuning in. 

 28:04
Justin Stevens
Thanks, Charlie.